19 Comments

1. Mr. Pink says:

   June 19, 2007 at 10:46 am

   I’m not ready to throw in the towel on Spitzer yet but this plus a WIcks “reform” bill that is terrible for Upstate, the lack of Upstate representation is his administration….and suddenly you start to say, maybe we’ve been sold a bill of goods.
2. jen says:

   June 19, 2007 at 11:26 am

   So sad.
3. Rifle Dude says:

   June 19, 2007 at 11:51 am

   What did you expect?
4. MR B says:

   June 19, 2007 at 12:02 pm

   I beg to differ. As I recall the Gov has been in WNY a couple of times for economic development related announcements. One was just last week at GM -
5. Starbuck says:

   June 19, 2007 at 12:21 pm

   All too typical of this area to focus on symbolism instead of substance.

   Wherever this guy lives it will be in an upscale neighborhood not all that different from where he is now in Saratoga Springs, and no doubt people will complain that it’s not the “real upstate”. I can just hear it now: “East Amherst is not the real upstate! -blah blah blah.”

   This guy’s town of residence got much bigger attentio n (front page, above the fold) in the Buffalo News than did last month’s report that NYS taxes on average are first place in the nation and over 50% higher than the national average.

   Which issue has real substantive impact on our continued stagnation, and which is purely symbolic?
6. hank kaczmarek says:

   June 19, 2007 at 12:38 pm

   TOM SUOZZI FOR GOVERNOR!!!

   OOPS–TOO LATE!!!

   Back to 3 Men in a Room—2 old, one new.

   EXCELSIOR!!!!!
7. Rifle Dude says:

   June 19, 2007 at 12:55 pm

   Starbuck.. how does someone isolated from the most devestated economic areas of the “non metro NYC region” promote development? Why did the governor create an office in Buffalo to begin with?

   Hell, under your standards why should he even be forced to relocated to NYS whatsoever?

   Part of the problem is that NYS hacks in Albany are so far removed from places such as ‘Cuse, the Roch and Buffalo that they have no clue what the unintend consequences of their rule has done to the “non metro NYC” counties of the state.

   If this gentleman was forced to live and deal with oridnary and mundane problems in Niagara Falls, I bet the state would have a different approach to reform and economic development.
8. jen says:

   June 19, 2007 at 1:03 pm

   Living in the area, he might learn more about the area, the people and it’s problem. He might even *gasp* interact with those lowly Upstaters!

   No doubt, if this guy does live in Amherst, people will complain, but at least he will be in the general geographic area that he claims to be helping.
9. jen says:

   June 19, 2007 at 1:04 pm

   Sorry – its, not it’s. I would love an edit button for comments.
10. Mike In WNY says:

    June 19, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    The only thing Spitzer accomplished when he appointed Gundersen was to increase the size of the State’s bureaucracy and add more jobs to the public payroll. Real economic development in this area needs more money in the private sector, not a bigger government.
11. Starbuck says:

    June 19, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Rifle Dude and Jen,

    It’s all just symbolic, or lets say at least 99.999999% symbolic, and meanwhile serious solutions to real root cause problems about the economy around here are seldom if ever discussed.

    Imagine a parallel universe where everything else is the same except this bureaucrat czar guy is forced to live anywhere you two choose – put him in a fixer-upper on Grider St or Grant St or wherever you want. In 5, 10, or 15 years do you really think Parallel Buffalo will be significantly better off than it would be otherwise in the other universe where he stays in Saratoga? His greater insights, awarenesses, and compassion will create more jobs here…. uhh how exactly?

    There are many serious ongoing reasons that Buffalo and Upstate have fallen so far, relative to the average U.S. region, in job creation and population over the past few decades.

    The locale (or even existence, as Mike in WNY points out above) of economic development bureaucrat “czars” is just nowhere on that list of serious ongoing reasons, and yet look at the attention it gets from grandstanding legislators, the Buffalo News editor, and others. Its significance is far far less than 1% of the problem/solution set.

    I understand that philosophically people just don’t want to accept my point that the NYS #1 ranking with taxes over 50% above national average is a HUGE chunk of upstate’s economic problem – not the only reason but IMO by far the single biggest factor. Many want to insist this is a coincidence, and somehow think Ontario’s high taxes prove their point (which of course is wrong for many reasons). The Buffalo News usually buries these tax ranking reports someplace way in the back of section B, but something irrelevant like where this guy’s house is they splash on the headline.

    Ok, fine, I get it – people disagree that taxes are a big problem – great I realize it’ll never change… but then offer me up some other *serious* explanations and related solutions about all this. I’m all ears.

    But to tell me that any significant part of a solution to Buffalo/Upstate is to hire this guy to cut special deals to lure a few business here while over the same time period a greater number of businesses shrink, leave, and/or never consider coming here… basically no different than the approach Cuomo and Pataki took… and then, then to tell me this will make an even more significant difference if we force this bureaucrat czar to live…. wherever… Bailey Ave, Broadway, Parkdale, Congress St, you name it… just strikes me as ridiculous.

    There’s a word for issues without substance: “symbolic”.

    This is about as purely symbolic as it gets.
12. Starbuck says:

    June 19, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    And Rifle Dude, about your question does he even have to move to NYS at all?

    I’d say no, it would be better for him to spend as much time as possible in the top-10 job creating states, meeting with leaders of the fastest job-creating businesses in those places to learn what really matters, then come back to NYS a week every few months to fill in our politicians back here about what changes would be truly helpful. I’m sure they’d be *very* interested in hearing what needs to change. (—eyes rolling—-).
13. Rifle Dude says:

    June 19, 2007 at 11:17 pm

    *yawn*… in order to market a product you need to understand that product. Furthermore, if you don’t utilize what you are selling (i.e. living in WNY) then why should I?

    Government is all about symbolism. However, this issue is more than symbolic. Its just the basics.

    True – taxes are part of the Upstate NY’s problems as are Eastern European style unions that border on something out of the Sopranos (i.e. Local 91). Yet, ineptitude, corruption and downright indifference from Albany is the proximate cause of “non metro NYC” inability to evolve with changing national and international markets.

    The biggest yield for potential development lies with our association with the Golden Horseshoe in Ontario – a place far removed from the cucumber sandwiches and champaign of Saratoga.

    The State Senate should look Elliot in the eye and say no to this confirmation. Elliot needs to eat some prunes and grunt really hard until this one is pushed out into the toilet.
14. steve says:

    June 20, 2007 at 10:39 am

    Is it possible that starbuck and rifledude are both right on this? Sure it’s about symbolism, but it’s also about management. Spitzer promised an upstate economic development office — located in Buffalo — and we apparently have one. But the guy tapped to be the upstate “czar” who is supposed to manage that office is more than four hours away by really fast car.

    Unfortunately, too much of what is called economic development in this state is 99 percent symbolism. Sprinkle some tax cuts around. Throw in some low-cost hydro power as a party gift. Manipulate the levers on the empire zone machine. But, no matter what else you do, make sure there’s a press conference. God forbid that anyone in the private sector create a job or invest in new equipment without the political machine taking credit for it.

    In the meantime, the fundamental problems don’t get fixed — or even addressed — because everyone in the public sector is too busy doing “economic development.”

    For his sake, I hope Gunderson’s short-term rental locked in pre-Saratoga racing seasons rates. In-season rates there will kill you.
15. Starbuck says:

    June 20, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    Unfortunately, too much of what is called economic development in this state is 99 percent symbolism. Sprinkle some tax cuts around. Throw in some low-cost hydro power as a party gift. Manipulate the levers on the empire zone machine. But, no matter what else you do, make sure there’s a press conference. God forbid that anyone in the private sector create a job or invest in new equipment without the political machine taking credit for it.

    In the meantime, the fundamental problems don’t get fixed — or even addressed — because everyone in the public sector is too busy doing “economic development.”

    Steve – I wish I’d said that – that’s the best few sentences summarizing the “Upstate product” I can recall ever seeing and sure took a lot less space than my rantings!

    You’re exactly right. No doubt Spitzer and Gunderson will have multiple press conferences and ribbon cuttings in WNY, and in some cases it will be genuine good news such as Geico and Citicorp. But in big picture, looking at objective year-to-year job growth relative to the U.S. average we’ll very likely continue to badly lag. That’s why people move to the more successful states. Our economy gets some very publicized wins but overall suffers the decline of a thousand cuts from the expansions and relocations that never happen and nobody ever hears about.

    R-Dude, no need for more yawns, I’m more than sick of it all as well. We’re in agreement on deeper issues. So ok, force him to move to WNY or hire someone else instead who’s willing to live here, – that’s all fine with me, I won’t object on his behalf. I just think his extra familiarity with us won’t make a real difference and found it frustrating that his locale gets so much front page attention while our problem’s root causes are denied and hushed up.
16. Mike from Grand Island says:

    June 21, 2007 at 9:22 am

    Who the hell would want a public job when you have to put up with this nonsense? If the guy spends most of his time in Albany because he needs to work with the admistration 3 days a week than let the frigg’in guy have a life to enjoy with his family. The news has been filled with chip plants in saratoga county anyway – so he’s doing his job. If he’s feeling good about his family being safe and happy then he;ll be motivated. 50 years of deindustrialization isn’t gonna be turned around overnight.

    I love the city and I love the diversity of people. I don’t need to live there to know that we need jobs. In fact I moved out of the city when I walked down the street with my four year old and other kids his age were using the f bomb. And when the crack head next door kicked his door down because mama locked him out; or when the police were all over because a girl got dragged behind a house w an attempted rape. Now my kids catch frogs and snakes but I still want to help the city and it’s residents by spending my money there.

    Taxes: yea they’re high vis-a-vis the rest of the country. We can be like mississippi and have rising infant mortality rates too. And everythime someone talks about cutting the fat out of govt through consolidation some suburban right winger blocks it because “locally we know the issues.” 1 trillion in Iraq instead of the waterfront, or high speed trains, or getting mexico on it’s feet so people don’t feel like they need to immigrate here instead of staying home where they’d prefer to be anyway.

    I’m rambling because I’m multi-tasking. I love that comment: you’re both right.
17. hank kaczmarek says:

    June 22, 2007 at 7:53 am

    I’ve been in sales much of my working life. And normally if you want to be a good salesman, you have to know your product.
    In this guys case, the PEOPLE of WNY and CNY are the product. If you don’t know anything about them, how can you sell them?
    (semi-mandatory personal anecdote) If my brother wasn’t on disability and probably in need of job re-training, he’s a great example of the WNY Worker. Strong Work ethic. worked in Union and Non-Union shops and jobs. Comes from ancestors who, for example: Built and upholstered furniture at Kittinger and Artistic. (artistic left in the early 60’s for Arkansas). Worked in the Mills, both Bethlehem and Republic. A pattern maker for Pierce Arrow. Commercial lake Erie fisherman (and bootleggers). Hard working, enterprising stock. Not afraid of a hard day’s work. Can trace his family in WNY back to the late 1880’s.

    Many who read this can do the same. Get this guy out as has been said, (AFTER HE LEARNS ABOUT THE PEOPLE), and the area, and SELL BOTH TO COMPANIES OUT OF STATE.

    Then I could swallow some low price power or other manipulations of the Enterprise Zone machine, if it can’t be gotten rid of.

    Let the jack-offs from Albany come to WNY to see the guy. Might give their dead political hack asses some perspective, and then they might see that folks in WNY aren’t whining, the situation is real.
18. starbuck says:

    June 23, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    the PEOPLE of WNY and CNY are the product

    But Hank, he’s living in CNY already – that’s what PEOPLE here are complaining about and insisting he live in the Buffalo area and only that is acceptable to them. He must “feel our pain”. Seriously, PEOPLE here are really saying that.

    About salesmanship angle, I suppose if people truly believe the idea that WNYers and CNYers are better workers than those of more economically successful states with whom we’re so pathetically competing (I’m sure that would make an economist’s head explode, but whatever) – and if they also believe that superiority can be “sold” to offset higher costs of doing business in NYS…
    then if that’s the case, why not insist the czar be a native WNY resident?
    Why hire a Pennsylvania guy in the first place and have him waste time on-the-job learning how wonderful people here are and how corporate America has just been under-valuing our superior attributes since the 1960s? That’s a lot of time wasted to learn all that. Maybe Sam Hoyt should be given that job after all, as was rumored at first. He’d be perfect at selling the WNY work ethic – and he already lives here – he feels our pain deeply! Also causes a lot of it but hey, he feels it too!

    Spitzer would never say this, but privately he must be rolling his eyes at stupidity of complaints that the sleeping locale of a bureaucrat whose job is to negotiate sweetheart tax breaks is such a big hubbub here, while no complaints that state spending is raised over 9% in this year’s budget likely guaranteeing our staying as #1 tax state. Nope no complaints about that, but this touchy-feely issue gets a front page headline, a full editorial, and an Esmonde whine-athon all with a straight face demanding this guy move to Buffalo.

    Spitzer should order the guy to move to some east upscale suburb of Rochester and say “Hey babies, there’s your bottle – he’s sleeping in WNY now! Feeling your pain, learning what superior workers you all are!”
19. steve says:

    June 26, 2007 at 8:28 am

    Sorry for the really late post on this but, Starbuck, Saratoga is no more CNY than Buffalo is Ontario. Saratoga is due north of Albany on I-87 (aka the Northway) and sits in the middle of one of the fastest growing economic regions in the entire northeast.

    The issue is Saratoga County is handling growth — not creating growth. It is a lack of infrastructure to support new and growing companies — not idle infrastructure sitting abandoned. Good for Saratoga. But Syracuse, Watertown, Cortland, Binghamton, Elmira and other CNY burghs have far more in common with Buffalo than Saratoga.