9 Comments

1. Dan says:

   April 8, 2008 at 8:25 am

   Increasingly, I get the feeling that, collectively, Buffalo and Western New York really don’t want change. To use a politically incorrect analogy, Buffalo is like an overweight woman who, instead of saying “Men won’t give me the time of day. Maybe I better do something about it, go on a diet, work out, and lose some weight”, has the attitude of “Men won’t give me the time of day! They’re all sizeists! They should accept me, a big beautiful woman, for the way I am!”

   Maybe the system remains in place because, as much as people say it holds the region back, they just can’t let go.

   Not to toot my own horn, but I recently wrote a bit about Buffalo’s cultural and physical malaise over here: http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33561 .
2. Julia says:

   April 8, 2008 at 8:42 am

   With the proliferation of Empire Zones across the state, including areas that wouldn’t be considered “distressed” under the old definition of an Empire Zone, I’ve heard several people within the “industry” say the whole state should be an Empire Zone. It’s a great program that got destroyed by the State Legislature. Besides changing the rules of the program, the number of Zones has increased every year since it was put into place. That’s fine, but the administrative funding to run the local Zones has not increased since 2005 or 2003. At least there’s funding.
3. peter scott says:

   April 8, 2008 at 8:52 am

   I think the autonomy idea is a good one.

   While we should all understand that NYC does subsidize us, not the other way around…we all need to understand that the same hindrances to business people see upstate aren’t gonna stop businesses from setting up shop in NYC…it is NYC afterall
4. Buffalopundit says:

   April 8, 2008 at 8:52 am

   Dan – I took a look at your piece, and found this to be ridiculously on-point:

   In parts of Ohio where there’s a large number of 2nd and 3rd generation Appalachian migrants, locals say “You can take a man out of the mountain, but you can’t take the mountain out of a man.” A similar statement may be true for Buffalo: “You can take a Buffalonian out of a factory, but you can’t take the factory out of a Buffalonian.”

   There’s no doubt that the Buffalo region still carries the physical and cultural baggage of its industrial past. It could be compared to a person who lost some weight, but you can’t see it under the old, baggy clothes — bought at Kmart in 1972 — they refuse to shed. The cultural and physical baggage of the past, in my opinion, can hold back a region just as much as a sluggish economy.

   You’re right on this.

   One of the most striking things I recall from when I first moved here has to do with taking the depositions of young people (say, 25 and under). I’d say that they were undereducated for a global knowledge-based economy at a rate of 9:1; 4 of whom were dropouts, and the other 5 of whom were HS grads.

   All of these kids’ parents had worked in one factory or another, some open some closed. In the old days, people would work in factories and then try and put their kids through college so they could be doctors or engineers and make a better life for future generations. It was a building block to work in the factory. But in Buffalo, too many people I encountered (on an admittedly anecdotal basis) were satisfied to just have their future generations work in dwindling, lower-paying manufacturing jobs rather than have them take advantage of other opportunities.

   It’s quite sad, and I don’t know what the cause of that mindset is. Someone’s going to have to wake some people up and tell them – manufacturing is, for the most part, gone, and it’s not really coming back. If you want to work with your hands, learn a trade, go into construction, learn plumbing, do electrical work, pour concrete. These are sustainable blue-collar jobs with infinite futures. You could become a cop or a firefighter if college isn’t your thing.

   But if you want to succeed and compete in the 21st century, get a college degree.
5. Jim Ostrowski says:

   April 8, 2008 at 9:53 am

   I’m not convinced that NYC subsidizes Upstate–does that count free water and cheap power?

   But it really doesn’t matter. Why do we need to be subsidized? Upstate was once a major scene in the Industrial Revolution.

   And “we” are not subsidized, the Upstate political class is. They don’t mind; they love it. In return, they do NYCs bidding like hiring their firms to work on our waterfront.

   The question is, should we be a colony of NYC? Obviously not.

   Cut the state in half above Westchester.
6. Mike from Grand Island says:

   April 8, 2008 at 12:01 pm

   I recently saw a map of north america and it showed counties loosing and gaining population. The thing that struck me is that it is quite normal to be loosing population if you are in a secondary and lower level region. It was true in both Canada and the USA. Toronto and Montreal were growing and the rest of the counties were shrinking. Same was true of the northeast US. I’m not saying don’t do something about it. Just make sure what you do is not suicide.

   I agree with the cultural aspects of our economic decline. In fact I’ve thought about it quite a bit over the last quarter. Our society has pockets of people who simply do not value education. I explained to my nephew that his school district is probably spending between $10k and $20k per year on him in an effort to help him understand the value he’s getting for free. I hope it sinks in. Anyway, parents are perfectly content to waste this benefit and then blame the teacher. They’ll let their precious little one veg out on TV all night instead of doing some academic work. Amazing to immigrants come here and soak it up…

   got to run to a mtg – ciao
7. Stan P says:

   April 8, 2008 at 12:46 pm

   I have a problem with the statements on the education of people BORN here.

   Maybe the Pundit only takes dispositions from the uneducated.

   The % of College Graduates living here is about 24 % whereas the national average is about 18%.

   Without researching the fact, I think we have a very good public university system (excellent, affordable schools.

   I think the number of graduates woould be even greater if there were jobs to keep them here. Most move on to better opportunities.
8. Dan says:

   April 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm

   Stan> I think the number of graduates woould be even greater if there were jobs to keep them here. Most move on to better opportunities.

   Even if the types of jobs that appeal to the students graduating from the dozens of area colleges and universities are plentiful, I still have my doubts whether it would slow the outmigration of young educated people from the region. People leave not just because employment opportunities are lacking, but because the Buffalo area doesn’t offer them the environment, lifestyle and quality of life they are seeking. I’ve met many an expat who left Buffalo not because they couldn’t find a job in WNY, but because they thought the Rust Belt vibe was depressing and ugly, and they felt out of place; that being a young professional, they just didn’t fit in.
9. Denizen says:

   April 8, 2008 at 4:41 pm

   ^ At the rate Elmwood, Hertel (and Allen to a lesser extent) keep getting more and more exciting, that perception might start to change a bit. Especially, the Elmwood Village which now offers so many of those coveted stuffwhitepeoplelike lifestyle amenities like the food co-op, yoga, lattes, martinis, and gourmet sandwiches.

   Though in pure economic terms, Alan, I think the “not Buffalo” climate you highlight can not and will not stand any chance of improving from within as long as the globalized economy status quo continues on. As long as gasoline remains affordable for mass motoring and water supplies not completely dried up, the Sunbelt will still retain the lion’s share of the nation’s high-tech sector and other “knowledge” jobs.