10 Comments

1. Chris Smith says:

   December 5, 2008 at 1:50 pm

   We’re all experts on cars, so we hate the credit lines and loans for the auto industry. We don’t collectively know anything about CDSs or complex finance vehicles so we’re cool with $7,000,000,000,000 in giveaways for JPMorgan, Citi, et al of the world.

   I hate America.
2. Snarky Snarkmore McSnarkamaphone says:

   December 5, 2008 at 2:21 pm

   Isn’t the difference largely that the economic bailout is tied up in world economics, whereas the American auto industry is, well, more localized? I.E., when the shit hit the fan in the finance industry, the world’s economic mandarins all looked at us and said “You better fix this shit,” but the world’s automakers can get along just fine w/o the Big Three.

   Well, that and what you said.
3. rastamick says:

   December 5, 2008 at 8:07 pm

   And is spite of the fact that UAW is willing to make more concessions we’re going to hear some more from angry proles with their shitty jobs who have no training or brains and they’ll all be bitching about the guy who sits behind them at church in his jeans and UAW windbreaker because he makes more money. They’ll rip the rank and file and completely fail to grasp that people like AIG are still throwing half million dollar spa retreats for themselves after we’ve watched them ruin everything and take $85 billion in bailouts. I like America I hate stupid mouth breathers who take up the cause for management and support policies that will inflict even more damage on their dumb asses. Proles who voted for McPalin for example.
4. Chris from OP says:

   December 6, 2008 at 12:39 pm

   I hear a lot of noise about creative destruction coming from people opposed to the auto bailout. Why isn’t there any talk of a new American car company forming? Some of the better engineers jumping ship along with management types who have been criticizing the ignorant way the car companies have been run?

   I can’t imagine that the startup costs would be too ridiculously high right now because the entire automotive supply chain is so desperate to sell to anyone right now. A car company offering a few thousand really innovative cars could probably sell them all quickly to eager early adopters….

   I don’t think that our only choice here is to see the American auto industry completely disappear OR dump billions down the drain to the Companies formerly known as the Big Three.
5. Adam K. says:

   December 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm

   Ford is not like GM or Chrysler.

   They’re producing quality cars that keep their resale value, look good, run well, have top Consumer Reports rankings, and sell well.

   Ford’s sales last month fell by a smaller percentage than Toyota or Honda

   Ford’s not asking for immediate federal loan money.

   Ford made a profit in Q1 of this year before the market took a dive

   Ford is highly profitable overseas

   Ford has increased its US market share by nearly 2% this year.

   Just stop lumping them in with the garbage.
6. Adam K. says:

   December 6, 2008 at 2:45 pm

   The difference between the banks and the autos is that the banks were attempting to get into a situation where they could easily fail.
7. Buffalo Hodgepodge says:

   December 7, 2008 at 5:58 pm

   Adam makes a good point. I bought a Ford Focus three years ago. Car is paid off and runs great. I am very happy with it. I’d definitely buy another – or a Fusion or possibly an Escape Hybrid. Can’t think of a single GM or Chrysler model I’d even consider at this point, with the possible exception of the Saturn Aura.
8. hank says:

   December 8, 2008 at 12:14 am

   Nobody Bailed out Preston Tucker–In fact, the Big 3 fucked him.
   Staying Post-War,
   Willys Jeep got gonr when Willys sold Jeep to Kaiser in 53, and in 1963 became Kaiser-Jeep. Nash and Hudson blended into AMC, Kaiser sold Jeep to AMC in 1970, and now AMC is also gone, bought by Chrysler in 1987. Packard merged with Studebaker, lasted 2 more years and was gone.
   Studebaker went under in the early 60’s.

   WHO BAILED OUT ALL OF THESE AUTOMAKERS—-NOBODY.

   My wife and I do well financially, about 20K over what harry reid once called “Rich”, and we don’t pay a union one penny for the privilige.

   And Mike, and the rest of you pay for our health insurance due to career service in the military–(THANKS MIKE!!)

   But I’m not going to blame the unions 100% for the problems besetting the big 3, though of course they have made a big piece of the overall shit sandwich.

   The automakers fucked themselves by agreeing to a lot of ridiculous shit without thinking how they were going to pay for it if things got bad, with over the course of automobile manufacturing in the US, does happen with some regularity.

   And the automakers GOT fucked, by the government and these CAFE standard cars they’re forced to make if they want to make their high dollar trucks and SUV’s. The bigger and more luxurious a vehicle is, the bigger the profit margin.

   Where a Chevrolet Aveo may have all of 600-800.00 between the invoice cost and the dealer sticker price (GM is about 87.5% of sticker is cost), a Suburban Z model 4 WD may have 2500.00 between invoice and sticker, or more. The other 2 have similar scenarios.

   Does this mean they deserve a bailout? I don’t think so. If they have to go Chapter 11 to get it worked out so be it. Airlines do it, and few of them actually go out of business.

   The UAW still needs to get realistic about wages if they expect the company to survive domestically. Close the Job Banks, administer their own healthcare, clean up the abuse–as well as expecting managment to do the same cleanup.

   The Guy in the UAW windbreaker makes good bread. No sour grapes from me. But he also pays a hefty price in dues over the course of his employment. And job security, to say nothing of layoff-proof employment is not something the UAW has a good record of providing over the last 35 years.
9. Jon Splett says:

   December 8, 2008 at 7:28 pm

   You know what I bet would help relieve the big 3’s costs for health care to retired and current union workers?

   If the government bailed out every business with a world class single payer, national health system. I’d much rather see my tax dollars directly giving benefits to people than having them siphoned through Ford who then pays some insurance company to provide them.

   Bail out worker who stands to lose his means of support, not the company who fucked him out of it.
10. Timothy Domst says:

    December 10, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    An added dollar in gas tax would do more to create a fuel-efficient industry than any CAFE standard.