30 Comments

1. westcoastperspective says:

   April 19, 2007 at 7:23 pm

   A few lines of BS, don’t believe everything he says. He’s interested in one thing, collecting a paycheck. The Amherst IDA can’t be disolved fast enough.

   Young/smart talent is in Amherst and not elsewhere? What is there a moat around the city? BS

   He doesn’t pirate Bflo. business? He lost a few lawsuits over that same issue. BS

   70 percent of economic development in Amherst? Define economic development.

   The guy likes to blow his own horn. Sure Amherst is doing some things right, but if they’re the destination of choice, why is there a need for an IDA?
2. STEEL says:

   April 19, 2007 at 7:33 pm

   Pretty much everything he said was the truth but you can manipulate the truth by what you leave out. Just ask GW.

   His tone as you present it has an arrogance about it. A sense of moral superiority, as if Buffalo is solely responsible for what has happened to it. Hmmm…

   1. The young smart people want to be in vibrant central cities ie. Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Boston. The State’s decision to subsidize development in Amherst with a multi billion dollar campus in Amherst pretty much determined that Buffalo would not become a vibrant central city. The entire area would be far better off if efforts were made to make Buffalo as energetic as those cities but instead the effort has been put into Amherst. the results speak for themselves. Sorry folks, young intelligent people are leaving WNY because Amherst does not cut it. Is Amherst really the standard WNY wants to hold up to the world?

   2. The Amherst IDA lost a court case which stated that they were competing with Buffalo and other municipalities and paid a fine for that. If the Amherst IDA was working for the region as a whole they would have the name Erie County IDA. Why will they not agree to be folded into a regional authority?

   3. Amherst was ready for businesses like Geico because they do not have the burden of the urban poor (read Black People) and the fear and racism that goes with that. The poorest least educated are corralled inside Buffalo while Amherst sucked up the wealthiest. Does Amherst share any of the burden of poverty in the region. NO it does not.

   4. Amherst was ready for business because the government subsidized expansion of roads and other infrastructure to the tune of billions of dollars. At the same time the government aided and continues to aid massive disinvestment inside the city.

   5. What happens when the green campus office park feel is no longer sustainable? I wonder if Amherst is planning for the day when the damage of continued sprawl starts to jeopardize our nation. Oops that is already happening isn’t it?
3. cj says:

   April 19, 2007 at 10:19 pm

   Steel and WCP,

   First let me say that I respect all of the content that both of you post. Buffalo needs more like you.

   However, your comments about make you look like a girl who was stood up for prom. Bitter and Jealous.

   A couple of points.

   1- Of course this guy is cocky. He is essentially in sales and confidence sells. It is his nature. It also does not hurt that Amherst has been the big kid on the block for the last 20 years.

   2- Amherst is not competing with Buffalo. They are not in the same league. Not that either is better but they are most certainly different. The reason why Amherst has an IDA is to compete with other areas like Amherst not places like Buffalo.

   3- UB does help, even if just by perception and address. Furthermore, UB wanted to stay and expand in two separate locations in the city, but Buffalo fumbled it’s way to loosing either chance.

   4- Like it or not Amherst can offer land to develop or redevelop that has a better surrounding then Buffalo. The most comparable land mass in the city is the 1st ward that SHOULD be redeveloped for office parks and residential. But in the infinite wisdom of Buffalo, they move in an Ethanol plant. Amherst will not have an ethanol plant…EVER.

   5- The biggest and hardest truth that was presented, and both of you did not counter, is “There are a lot of union/permit/political obstacles with development in the city that just don’t exist in Amherst. Its much easier to get it done.” THIS IS SO TRUE IT HURTS.

   Please do not take my comments as aggressive or anti Buffalo. I dream of Buffalo coming back. But it needs to change. It needs to act more like Amherst and not look at Amherst as an enemy. Hell Buffalo should go after James Allen. It works for the Yankees. If you can’t beat the competition, bring them to your side.

   Buffalo needs to forget about industry. It is never going to come back to the point of helping. It is the equilavant of a band aid on gun shot.

   There is a mindset in Amherst that Buffalo is another world. I know as I grew up in Amherst. I do not think that people in Amherst think they are better, but rather feel Buffalo is the stupid but nice neighbor who never catches a break or when he does, finds a way to mess it up.
4. mark says:

   April 19, 2007 at 10:40 pm

   “I do not think that people in Amherst think they are better, but rather feel Buffalo is the stupid but nice neighbor who never catches a break or when he does, finds a way to mess it up.”

   ….couldn’t have said it better.
5. STEEL says:

   April 19, 2007 at 10:53 pm

   …Finds a way to mess it up by housing all the poorest people who are kept out of Amherst? That kind of holier than thou thinking is tiring. Again I ask, Why is there an AMHERST IDA if they are not competing with the rest of the region? Is it perhaps that they don’t give a F about the rest of the region? Why is it that the area’s wealthiest municipality does not have a public housing agency?

   Until Amherst starts pulling its weight as far as solving the region’s economic and social problems it is only looking out for its self and to pretend otherwise is to accept the decline of WNY as something that will never end. It is naive to think that the cities problems are solely the fault of ineptitude of its government. Most of the region’s wealth has been moved to the suburbs. What do you think would happen to Amherst if all of a sudden 90% of Amherst’s wealth was take out and given to Orchard Park.
6. Condor says:

   April 20, 2007 at 5:47 am

   Waaah waaah waaaah … Amherst is #1 #1 #1. And 40 years from now when Buffalo is a suburb of Amherst… They will still be filing lawsuits over the waterfront… as Buffalo spirals into oblivion.
7. BenMcD says:

   April 20, 2007 at 7:28 am

   Steel,

   Your understanding of economics is astonishingly lacking.
8. cj says:

   April 20, 2007 at 8:54 am

   Steel,

   The reason Amherst has an IDA is to compete with other suburbs or towns like Amherst in the US. Not to compete with other towns not cities. Also, why should Amherst give a F about Buffalo when Buffalo does not give a F about itself? Time and time again, Buffalo has shot itself in the foot. Buffalo has had absolute morons running the show for the last 50 years. The town of Amherst and ALL Amherst agencies are there to benefit the residents of Amherst. Do you want them to just lay down because Buffalo can not differentiate it’s a**hole from a hole in the wall.

   I am also sure you will find Amherst more willing to pull it’s weight in regards to the areas socioeconomic challenges when the rest of the region can learn how to spend what they have and not more then what they can borrow. Do you just want the residents of Amherst to write a blank check so the city and rest of the region can piss it away? After all, millions has already been pissed away with no result? Maybe Amherst should be the center of the city. Have the “mindset” of Amherst run things for 20-30 years. I would love to see where WNY is after that.

   The real reason why people move to the burbs and have in the past is to escape the BS of Buffalo. To escape from the countless ankle grabs forced on be the unions who run the city. To escape the moronic leaders that seem to get elected time and time again. To escape the blunders of development of said leaders. To escape the school system that long ago lost the kids and is run by the union.

   UNTIL ALL OF THIS CHANGES, BUFFALO DOES NOT DESERVE SUPPORT. It is the equivalent of giving a crack head $50 for food because they say with a straight face that they are clean. We all know the money is going to be wasted until said crack head goes into rehab.

   You will find countless people who live in the burbs but WANT to be a part of the city. But until the craziness ends, it is not a wise decision.
9. STEEL says:

   April 20, 2007 at 10:06 am

   CJ,

   Exactly what has Buffalo done to shoot its self in the foot? Oh yes It allowed poor people to live inside its boarders. And Why does Amherst have to wait for other towns and cities to do anything in order to pull its share of the weight? What is stopping Amherst with all its economic might from taking a leadership role in solving the area’s problems. Certainly Amherst would benefit if the poverty that has been concentrated inside the city was eliminated? Perhaps if Buffalo was the beneficiary of Billions in state investment as Amherst there would be

   Until Amherst has faced the real problems of ecxtreme poverty that they l;eave to the city that town and others like it have no right to make judgments.

   As far as Amherst competing with other suburbs in other metro areas, again I ask wouldn’t a regional IDA be able to do the same thing much better with less waste?
10. STEEL says:

    April 20, 2007 at 10:12 am

    BenMcD,

    In exactly what way?
11. cj says:

    April 20, 2007 at 11:06 am

    Steel,

    Buffalo has for years been anti business and pro union. This is cause #1 for it’s demise. Secondly, when an opportunity comes to Buffalo “leaders” want to place restrictions or ask for guarantees. Amherst did not require Geico to hire specific quotas. I remember before Adelphia went bust, Tony wanted this and that to happen in order for a huge company to build a giant complex downtown. Buffalo has a knack for begging for something and then just before the deal is closed demanding things. I hope you are not saying that there is a similar environment to development in Buffalo and Amherst. We both know they are opposite ends of the spectrum.

    Amherst simply has a different mindset. Take for example the mill in the village. Instead of allowing it to go into the hands of developers and possibly ruined, the town purchased the building and is making the repairs. Anyone want to comment on how Buffalo and the CT. Buffalo let the opposite happen. It allowed the CT to get into the hands of developers and look at it now.

    Another blunder you are bitching about is UB. The city had the opportunity to expand UB either across the street on the land used for a city run golf course or down by the water. Not sure on all of the details but Buffalo COULD HAVE KEPT UB IN THE CITY. The billions in state investment could have been in the city. But the city leaders at the time fumbled the ball and Amherst picked it up and took it to the house for 6.

    Another blunder is what the city has done with it’s great buildings. Just look at the works of FLW. The larkin was taken down and other examples of his works were ignored and neglected only to need MILLIONS in aid to bring back to life. The warehouse for the Larking complex has done a lot for that area. Just imagine the effect if the administration building was still a part of the complex. 4 times the effect IMO.

    Another blunder is the transportation systems put in play. The massacre of the Olmsted parkway system or what I like to call the scar that never heals. THIS IS WHAT STARTED THE DEMISE OF THE EAST SIDE. Keeping on topic is the skyway and thruway. GREAT IDEA. Lets cut off the city from it’s best asset. SMART MOVE.

    Another recent blunder is the hotel near Buff State. Now it was mostly a legal issue but did city hall try and step in? Did B. Brown act as a leader and hold a meeting with local residents and try and convince them that is was a good idea? NO! He sat back, like every other leader, and let the few run the city. He is concerned about getting elected next time around not leading the city while his is in office.

    Do you need more?

    In regards to a regional IDA, it would not be able to do the same thing. Now saying that it would be able to spread the wealth is is true, but this is not your claim. You feel a regional IDA would be able to accomplish the same for Amherst and for less money. Not the case.

    Once again why should Amherst carry the burden for the region. Because it can is not a reason. Yes there are poor people in Buffalo, in WNY, in NYS and in the US. But what has been done to make sure aid is not wasted? Why should someone in Amherst, who is already gouged with taxes, give MORE to cover those who barely pay taxes. Are Amherst residents going to have a seat on the Common council? Amherst has 1/3 of the population of Buffalo. Will Amherst get 1/3 of the votes on how the city is run?

    Let’s talk about a regional GOVERMENT. If we have a regional IDA, why not a regional government. Do you support a regional government? I do.

    Let’s wipe the slate clean. Make Buffalo and the first ring of burbs all one entity. Erase ALL CONTRACTS. All teachers loose pension. All pension perks are taken off the table. After all Buffalo, Amherst and other towns would no longer exist so the contracts would be void. This is the only was a REGION will work.

    Buffalo has been writing checks it’s ass can not cash for years. It finally has caught up to them. NOW YOU WANT A BAIL OUT FROM THE BURBS. BS!

    I agree that Buffalo needs to be healthy. Buffalo SHOULD be the focal point of the region. But until Buffalo is ready to take center stage and not F it up, Amherst or any other town should not come to the rescue.
12. BuffaloGeek says:

    April 20, 2007 at 11:12 am

    “1. The young smart people want to be in vibrant central cities ie. Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Boston.”

    That may be true, however, the City of Buffalo does absolutely nothing from a macro or micro economic development level to attract those budding entrepreneurs or small cutting edge companies which appeal to that demographic into the city. Neither does Amherst.

    The local economic development agencies are interested in bringing back office operations, manufacturing, and medical research jobs into Buffalo. No one is actively recruiting IT, design, architecture, publishing, film production, or multimedia companies into the area. Toronto actively pursues them as do other metro areas while we cheer and scream over Geico opening a call center.

    We can’t just close our eyes and hope and wish and dream that those people will show up. We need a concerted effort to bring them here.
13. aaron says:

    April 20, 2007 at 11:36 am

    This is not true. I was a planning student at UB, and we were told that Geico was interested in the Buffalo area- they were shown several sites around the city including the old Pierce-Arrow plant area on Elmwood and Pierce Arrow in Buffalo; however, the Geico rep freaked out. The final site they showed them was way out in Amherst and they loved it. Despite repeated attempts to get Geico in the city, they chose Amherst.

    Are you a planning student at UB? I just graduated from there. hence my interest in a lot of the stuff you write about-
14. cj says:

    April 20, 2007 at 11:49 am

    The very simple reason Buffalo does not go after IT, design, architecture, publishing, film production, or multimedia companies is because there is little to offer voters in Buffalo when these companies come. For the most part these firms would either bring in new blood or hire educated or skilled people. These jobs do nothing for the current residents. Leaders are looking for private pork to spend.

    Buffalo is a perfect location for these types of operations but if they were to come, the “mindset” of Buffalo would change. The types of “leaders” they would get elected would change. The power of unions would change.

    Buffalo goes after back office operations, manufacturing, and medical research jobs because when the do come, which is rare, it provides jobs for the masses of low skilled labor inside of the city.

    Just like the title of this post…The truth hurts. A generation of people who hoped that a HS diploma would get them a middle class life is going to get the shaft, IF BUFFALO does what it needs to do. There is no attack on the middle class. The middle class is a moving target. It just got a little harder to reach. That is all. 100 years ago you could be “middle class” with a 6th grade education. Human nature is to evolve. Last time I checked there was not a pause button on progress. Although I bet people in Buffalo have been looking for it.

    Buffalo is never going to get to 500k residents and healthy on the jobs it had in the past. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. But Buffalo can grow again if it goes after what it CAN get, what it SHOULD get.

    Really if you think about it, it is simple. Make it easy for “new” business jobs to come to the area. IF taxes were lower, a company could move to the area and pay less for operations and have better facilities then in Boston, Toronto and NYC. They could pay employees 25% less and still pay them enough to have a much better lifestyle then they would find in places like Boston, Toronto and NYC.
15. Dan says:

    April 20, 2007 at 11:51 am

    “I do not think that people in Amherst think they are better, but rather feel Buffalo is the stupid but nice neighbor who never catches a break or when he does, finds a way to mess it up.”

    Much more diplomatic than how I’ve described it in the past.

    Ms Buffalo is a girl with a pretty face and a terrific personality. However, she also weighs 300 pounds, and has a very difficult time finding dates. Instead of working out to lose weight, though, she resorts to the constant cry of “Why do men like vapid waifs like Ms Amherst and Ms Clarence? They’re not real! Fat is beautiful, and if you just can’t appreciate that, you’re a sizeist jerk!”

    Ms Buffalo also seems to be hoping for the time when men will come to appreciate overweight women; when they’ll look past the pounds and see the inner beauty that lies inside. Since the 1970s, she’s been insisting that time is just around the corner. “Next year!”
16. mark says:

    April 20, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    aaron, yes i am doing planning at UB. I’m glad you’re interested in the content.

    everyone-this dialogue is AMAZING. and INTENSE. keep it up!
17. cj says:

    April 20, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Aaron,

    there is a big difference in looking at property in Buffalo and wanting property in Buffalo. Having looked for office space myself, you look at all options. You have to. Not only does it give you perspective on what you are paying for. It helps in the negotiations when you are able to compare the property in question to other local examples.
    No matter how Buffalo wants to package it, what they have to offer is much different then Amherst. Both have positives and negatives.
    Geico has a huge office in greater San Diego. Not downtown but in Poway. I have been to the campus. Pretty much the same setup as Amherst. Low to mid rise building. Nice view and lots of parking not a real access to mass transit. There is a trend of what they want and do and Buffalo had nothing that fits it. Because of this, it is safe to say that Geico was never going to locate in the city.

    Buffalo is stuck in neutral. Holding on to the industrial past but flirting with a corporate future. This does not work. If you do some research on Amherst, it was not the power house it is 25 years ago. Main Street was two lanes and I rode my dirt bike on the trails that now house Ingram Micro. I remember thinking the country was N. French and kids who went to Williamsville North lived in the sticks.
    But Amherst went full steam ahead and never looked back. There were gains and losses. Those who did not like the change moved farther east to Clarence or somewhere else. But many more moved in.

    What people have to remember in development is you can not please everyone and the company is the customer. Buffalo has not grasped this yet. Companies call the shots because they can. You do not have to accept their terms but they do not have to come. How many times has this been played out? Also, growing a city or changing the dynamic of a city is not going to keep everyone happy. People are going to leave, but others will come. Just think of a business that needs to reinvent itself to stay alive. But what also needs to be said is DOING NOTHING only ensures that people leave.
18. BuffaloGeek says:

    April 20, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    We need to give cj his own blog on WNYMedia.

    admin@wnymedia.net if you’re interested in joining the network.
19. Lisa says:

    April 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    WOW!! I stopped reading after awhile…
    Buffalo is making a comeback and has been for awhile. I agree that our city has issues. Big issues but things are moving and not because of big businesses but rather the community and …possibly some “little” big businesses. I see all over new houses even if they are paper thin HUD homes they are better than the crack house that use to be there. Sure if I could recreate the whole city I do think we should put some of our parking lots underground and our businesses should rent apartments over the top. But we are working with what we have. I do see a lot of young people that move here and stay too.
    Now as far as Amherst goes…Amherst is where I grew up (although I often deny it) and it is a bit stuffy (lets be honest.) And the city line at the UB Tops Market does have an invisible “do not pass the dotted line into Amherst” for many city folk. Many people are afraid to go to Amherst because of that reputation; it has been told to me that Amherst officials like it that way too. I also feel Amherst is becoming overgrown in its mundane Applebee’s, super Wal-Mart own way, but then again I can say these things because I made it out! Sorry mom and dad.
20. Dumb vs Dumber says:

    April 20, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    Isn’t this Amherst vs. Buffalo back and forth rather pointless when the Buffalo/Niagara metro area is consistently dropping population faster than almost every other metro in the U.S. (except for New Orleans and a handful of others)?

    FixBuffalo blog talks about that here a few days ago:
    http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/04/ouch.html
21. STEEL says:

    April 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    Thank You Dumb and Dumber!
22. lisa says:

    April 21, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Good point but it is kinda fun to rib on Amherst.

    If I come off anti-Amherst in my jest it’s because I do think Amherst is bit greedy. I have friends in Amherst and have had similar debates with them, all in fun. They are amazed when I say Buffalo is a great place to live; they don’t even know that Buffalo has any nice areas! They think its all crack heads, living as squatters, because they don’t even get off of the 33 on their way too and from work or Chippewa. When I was a kid Amherst had nothing it was mostly a field. Where did all those people come from? UB had a lot to do with it, and all those weird little business that most of us don’t even know what they are? But many came from Buffalo; they made some money, moved out of Buffalo and left the city dry. also a lot of people that live in Amherst work in the city; you can see that in the traffic every morning. But yet they want to spend their money at the Galleria Mall and Starbucks. This is the reality. Of course people want to be safe and away from “Crack Heads” but some of those crack heads go to Sweet Home and have parties in their basements while mom and dad watch American Idol. Guess what they also sell it. This is of course the case in any of our suburbs.

    Buffalo is getting better than it was 10 years ago. We are not the only city that has had an exodus from the North; many people are moving to Southern & Western cities. I do not think we should try to regain everything we had a 100 years ago it will not happen, but we are making it a nice little city. I do agree we have too many chiefs that are union that need to be downsized; I believe in sharing the wealth and making our city a megalopolis (it is the right thing) and I believe in Buffalo.
23. cj says:

    April 21, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    Dumb v. Dumber,

    People do not leave WNY because of Amherst. Hell people stay because of the insulation that Amherst, and areas like Amherst, provide.

    The actions of IDA has a direct effect on the amount of migration of intellectually talent that packs up and leaves every year. Hammering out a solid regional plan for progress and having discussions like this only better the movement to revive Buffalo and WNY as a region.

    Just why do you think people leave? If you do not think it is due to economic conditions, then that is DUMB. If you do not think IDA and competing IDA’s have an effect on employment and thus and effect on economic conditions, that is DUMBER.

    This conversation, IMO, is about what direction should WNY take in order to ensure progress. Some have posted that Buffalo should be the lead horse. I feel that Amherst, or at least the style of Amherst’s IDA, should take the lead. That more then relevant topic. But nice trackback.

    In regards to Lisa’s comments, yes Buffalo is progressing but WNY is not in a vacuum. Other areas are progressing at a much faster clip. It is not just moving forward, it is moving forward and moving past your competition.

    I also agree that WNY should act as a region and not as a multi-layers hodge·podge of governments. The only challenge is once again, who takes the lead. Simply handing over the reins to what currently exists will have the same effect of doing nothing.
24. Dumb vs. Dumber says:

    April 21, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    CJ, it sounds like you read some message into my comment that I did not intend.

    Maybe that’s because I wrote “Amherst vs. Buffalo” instead of “Buffalo vs. Amherst”. I meant BOTH of those perspectives equally.

    Yes, I totally 100% agree with what you wrote in reply that the biggest reason people leave is mainly due to ecocomic conditions. Jobs and better career growth prospects.

    And I also totally agree that Amherst is not the enemy of Buffalo, and visa-versa (I hope Steel doen’t withdraw the thank you now – j/k). We should be happy that Geico put a facility anywhere in WNY. Frankly I was very surprised (pleasantly) when that happened.

    My point was that since WNY (and basically upstate) in terms of polulation and job growth has been falling so far behind almost everwhere else in the U.S. with only a handful of exceptions, that this frequent bickering of Amherst/suburb lovers vs. Buffalo/urban lovers and visa-versa is ridiculous in our big picture around here.

    In all places across the country obviously some people and companies will prefer suburbs and some prefer urban centers. Northcoast Craig makes IMHO a great point today that “Treating suburbanization as a ‘problem’ that must be fixed isn’t particularly constructive.”
    http://northcoastonline.typepad.com/north_coast_online/2007/04/regionalism_is_.html

    But as a whole, WNY, and by far most other metros across upstate, continue to be clobbered economically realtive to almost everywhere else. My point was that is harming this area much more than these tired arguments that get so much more attention in the local blogosphere: Buffalo vs. Amherst and/or Amherst vs. Buffalo, blah-blah vs. yackety-yack.

    Again, FixBuffalo’s post I linked above has very informative facts, figures, and commentary about the continuing slide of the Buffalo/Niagara *metro* area.

    It’s fine with me if the Amherst IDA disappears tommorow, but if anyone thinks that would cause any real improvement in the big picture around here I think they’d be very mistaken.
25. John Straubinger says:

    April 21, 2007 at 2:18 pm

    OK, I’ll just state a couple of “truths” as I know them from my experience of having spent grammar school in Buffalo and high school in Amherst. In the late 1950’s. the 1960’s and the 1970’s, the fear of having a black neighbor and all the real estate industry manipulation, i.e. blockbusting, of what that would do to the value of one’s home almost instantly and also a prediction of a rapidly changing racial composition of a neighborhood in terms of family safety at school and after school drove an ever increasing white flight out to the suburbs. Buffalo’s “white flight” story might seem quaint or exaggerated or meaningless to many of the 20 and 30 year olds who are regular bloggers and posters at Buffalo’s various websites but for a person like me who is in their 50’s, “the white flight express” is still a strong memory. Why? Because the majority of the white adult population of the city in those times, many of them World War II Veterans, were racist. Their racism wasn’t the “lynch em if they look at a white woman the wrong way racism”. It was a belief shared by many second and third generation immigrant-background families that the blacks in Buffalo mostly came here during World War II while they were fighting overseas and started taking jobs and moving into neighborhoods that weren’t theirs. Now in response to this upheaval in Buffalo (and every other major American city) Amherst and all the rest of Buffalo’s suburbs didn’t advertise that they were a safe haven. They didn’t have to. Buffalo’s suburbs offered new homes and new schools in nice new neighborhoods and for some reason, didn’t seem to have any black families interested in new homes and new schools in nice new neighborhoods. Presto, the “middle class tax base” as guys like Allen like to point out, “voted with their feet” and moved to Amherst and all the other first ring suburbs. Now you could have asked the question then, Did they vote with their feet or did they move because they were frightened into thinking that the situation was beyond reasonable discussion and the point of no return? Well it’s certainly moot now. And I might add, even before this big exodus occurred, Amherst had been working on the upper middle class suburb thing since the 1920’s. Pomeroy Park anyone? Also, Amherst is Amherst today – back in the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s, it was Eggertsville, Snyder and Getzville.
    As for Mr. Allen’s claim that most of today’s corporate types prefer the “green Suburban setting”, the “tenant pirating” that he downplays was a very necessary component in developing Amherst’s critical office park mass point that then validated the very public opinion he successfully created.
    Yes, Mr. Allen is in many ways like Buffalo’s economic decline Darth Vader but he’s very successful because of his attitudes and most importantly, actions and policies. I don’t know if Griffin or Mayor Tony ever tried to hire the guy. I’m sure he wasn’t interested and he certainly could run circles around lightweights like Alan DeLise, Dan Bicz and an out-of-his-league Joe Ryan. However, I do think that Tobe is a different story. He’s good competition for Mr. allen and, Mr. Allen has lost his big UB ally, President Greiner.
26. cj says:

    April 21, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    This thread is Awesome!!! This is the epitome of the power of blogs. A short post can lead to a long discussion. John, your post provided a ton of insight.

    BuffaloGeek thanks for the invite. However I have to decline. I blog a ton for my firm and the time is just not there. But if everyone is ok with it, I would love to participate in comments on the wny media network.

    One suggestion is I would like to see content on policy not the people behind the policy. If a revolution is going to happen in Buffalo it is going to come on the tail of a mindset change. Leaders will migrate to this and run with it. Buffalo for the longest time has elected the jockey not the horse IMO.
27. Jim Allen says:

    April 23, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    I certainly didn’t expect my remarks to a planning class at UB to generate this amount of interest. I think the above discussion is great and we need more of it. But I would like to clarify a couple of things.
    My remarks were not intended to pit Amherst against Buffalo in any way. My remarks were intended to point out the importance of planning your future not just wishing for it. Amherst took advantage of the State’s decision to build the north campus in Amherst and developed a master plan to create the type of physical space that firms that wanted proximity to the University would be looking for. In the ’70s and continuing today, many firms wanted to be in a campus-like industrial or office park. Planning such facilities and encouraging private sector developers to build them has paid tremendous dividends. My remarks, rather than saying Amherst is wonderful were meant to point how crucial good planning and implementation is.

    I am personally excited about the City’s master plan, the Queen City 2020 plan, the Waterfront plan and the Canalside Plan. If all of these plans are implemented, and I do believe they will be under Rich Tobe and other planning and development officials downtown, then Buffalo has an exciting and prosperous future. But the key is planning your future and vigorously implementing that plan.
28. lisa says:

    April 23, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    I agree that this has been a great comment thread, such smart people in here…very insightful,I love learning new things about our city and the suburbs. But, I have to admit I do feel kind of guilty about picking on Amherst! So, uh… um… Sorry! I love you guys up there too. PEACE!
29. Wow says:

    May 3, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    Nothing muddies up a good economic development conversation as well as crying about the lack of community development and allegations of racism. Obviously they’re important, but they aren’t economic development, which is what the original post was on.

    Last time I checked there weren’t any walls setup between Amherst and Buffalo, or any other municipality for that matter. I work for a company in downtown Buffalo where less than 10% of the employees actually live in Buffalo. I don’t hear any of the suburbs crying that they are losing jobs.

    On the flip side, I’d bet willing to bet that 10% or more of the employees at Geico come from within the city of Buffalo. Those are jobs that wouldn’t be available if Geico was not in Amherst. Instead some people from suburbusa, someotherstate would be working in these jobs.

    Point is, you can’t tell people where to live and you can’t tell companies where to locate. If you make it easy and desirable for people and companies to locate in your municipality, then it will happen. And if it doesn’t you better hope that your neighbor attracted them because it’ll help you too.

    I get the feeling that Buffalo, if given the choice, would rather have no jobs in the region rather than let a company, who finds a certain place desirable, to locate where they want if it happens to be outside the city limits. THATS CRAZY. It hurts everyone to have such a negative outlook.

    Now I’ve met Mr. Tobe, and he is too bright a guy to ever have such an opinion. I think he’ll do great things in the City, just as Mr. Allen has for Amherst. Its the “other voice” in Buffalo that worries me. Every time something positive happens for the region, a few sourpusses jump to arms to stop it, and then their local representation follows.

    A lot of self happiness can come from having a good job, but that can’t happen if we keep shunning progress because its not exactly on our terms.