12 Comments

1. Brian Castner says:

   June 22, 2009 at 4:47 pm

   I watched the same monologue. Do you agree with Maher’s assessment of the Dems, or his wish that they would represent a more liberal wing?

   I feel like our two parties represent 80% of the American people. The polls may show more Independents, but I think there is a lot of disgruntledness and ambivalence, not ideological division.

   So a fringe on the right is unrepresented. A perhaps bigger fringe on the left is unrepresented. But in general, we’re a center-right country, and our politics reflect that. The American people did not elect a French Socialist. Who thought we did? Highly educated, East Coast, limosine liberals? I thought they were smarter than that.
2. Ethan says:

   June 22, 2009 at 6:06 pm

   We’re a center-right country? Evidence for said assertion, s.v.p.?

   Anyone who thought Obama was anything other than a corporate-centrist wasn’t paying much attention, or rather, was paying attention to the wrong sources of information. Like… his campaign rhetoric.
3. Brian Castner says:

   June 22, 2009 at 9:11 pm

   Ethan – are you kidding me!!! In the US, the words Communist, Socialist, and Liberal are epithets (didn’t we just have this conversation). We are a country founded on hatred of taxes and a fondness for guns. We have one of the few death penalties in the West. We fear socialized medicine, and argue about how many places we can put God and the Ten Commandments in the public square. I could go on and on and on. Our Democrats would be considered Conservatives in Britain. And we have no equivalents to the Social Democrats, Communists, and other left-wing VIABLE (and leading) parties of Europe. If you don’t think we live in a center-right country, you need to get out more.
4. Chris Smith says:

   June 22, 2009 at 11:19 pm

   Nearly across the board, people support progressive causes. The Democratic Party no longer does, it’s just that simple. They are bought and paid for by the same interests that bought the republican party years ago. Want health care reform or a public option like the majority of Americans? Good luck getting that past the Mary Landrieu’s of the world who accept millions of dollars each year in campaign contributions from the the health insurance lobby.

   What Maher alludes to in the video is what I touched upon in my article a few months back called “The Sphere of Deviance”. Liberals are underrepresented in the debate which is fundamentally at odds with the polled impulses of Americans.

   http://buffalogeek.wnymedia.net/blogs/2009/03/18/the-sphere-of-deviance/

   The Democrats push their “fringe” out of the debate altogether. Also, if you wanna come at me, you better do something better than calling Obama a socialist. That argument carries absolutely no water here as calling the man a socialist is a slap in the face to socialists everywhere.

   If you think the right wing fringe is not represented in the Republican Party, I’m not sure what America you’re living in. The party has embraced the fringe and moved it to the front and center. The Republican Presidential ticket featured a card carrying member of the fringe lunatic wing of the party. She’s a creation loving Dominionist with a love for every right wing lunatic going.
5. Ethan Cox says:

   June 22, 2009 at 11:19 pm

   Brian-

   Barack Obama’s national popular-vote margin and Electoral College vote total were both higher than those posted by George W. Bush in either 2000 or 2004. The Democratic majorities of the incoming 111th Congress (57 percent minimum in Senate, 59 percent in House) are as large as any since the Democrat-controlled 95th Congress of 1977-78. The Democrats control 29 of the nation’s 50 governorships, which is 58 percent.

   Basically, then, in political control this is just shy of a 3:2 ratio. And yet, according to some quarters, the Democrats are a 58 percent minority because somehow, despite supporting more popular positions, controlling majorities at every level of government, America remains forever a “center-right” nation.

   link

   In poll after poll, when you ask people questions that aren’t loaded, we are a fairly liberal country: Americans support universal healthcare, are pro-choice, oppose the war in Iraq, and support the Democratic agenda on everything from the environment to the minimum wage to international diplomacy… As the quotation above points out, we have a Democratic president, Senate, House, majority of governors. So, it has nothing to do with guns (we have quite a bit of regulation of them, by the way, it’s not exactly Deadwood out there), religion, or how we compare with Scandinavian countries. Most of the people who are scared of “socialism” don’t even know what it is, and think somehow Sweden is a land of enslaved zombies or something.

   We are demonstrably *not* a “center-right” country, but I have noticed that this has become a popular right-wing assumption, slipped in all the time but lacking in supporting evidence. As if by repeating it over and over again it’ll be true.
6. Mike In WNY says:

   June 22, 2009 at 11:44 pm

   Both parties pander to corporations. However, democrats still represent and saddle us with many costly and inefficient progressive policies. But, then again, so do many republicans.
7. Brian Castner says:

   June 23, 2009 at 4:02 pm

   Ethan – Your data on American voting habits is irrelevant, because you are still talking about the US. I say the US is a center-right country when compared to world politics. Our R’s are further right than most country, and our Dems are centrists in most countries. Ergo, we are a center-right country. And I think your arguments about issues that prove we are a left-leaning country are laughable. I don’t have the link, but for the first time this year, more Americans were pro-life than pro-choice in the yearly Gallup poll. They oppose the war in Iraq now, but Bush had 80% approval ratings when we invaded because if there is one thing Americans like, its kicking ass. And yes, it is Deadwood out here, outside of BRO-land (the Elmwood Village, and havens like it). I’m in NC now, and I bet a quarter of the cars in the parking lot of my hotel have guns in them. I have lived in many states out west – are you familiar with concealed carry laws? People pack everywhere.

   The fact that Dems have a majority of the elected positions in this country only means we are more centrist. Because isn’t Chris complaining Dems are corporate hogs, and not liberals?

   Chris – I’m not sure if you are talking to me, but I don’t think Obama is a socialist. Because you are right – he is mainstream. The R’s have not embraced the right wing fringe, because the fringe is even farther to the Right than you think. The Right wing gets far nuttier than Palin. Jim Ostrowski is one example, but he’s tame in comparison to some. Living in the South and West has taught me many many people share the sentiments of people like the killer of Dr. Tiller, the Kansas Abortion Doctor. Exhibit B is the FBI report of Right-Wing violent groups becoming a bigger threat after the election. You can’t tell me the average Republican wants to violently attack the US government.

   One more thing – I’d like to point out that Ethan is trying to present evidence that we are not a center-right country in our representation, and Chris is presenting evidence that we are too center-right in our representation. I think that puts me in a Goldilocks position right in the middle.
8. Brian Castner says:

   June 23, 2009 at 4:49 pm

   Ethan – your ignorance on guns bothered me, so I took the time to do the research. How about this:

   http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2834893820070828

   Reuters did a story in 2007 about the number of guns in the world, according to a report by a Geneva-based think tank. Some highlights:

   - There are 270 millions guns in America, or 9 for every 10 people.
   - There are 875 millions guns total worldwide, so we own 1/4 of them.
   - The rate of gun ownership is 7 for every 10 people worldwide, or 1 for every 10, if you take out the US.

   Yes, we love our guns, and it is Deadwood out there. And yes, we are a center-right country, compared to the world as a whole.
9. Ethan says:

   June 24, 2009 at 6:28 pm

   lest my lack of reply thus far be taken wrongly, let me assure you that I’m about 500 words in. But I’m also on vacation, having fun with my extended family in rural Nebraska, and so this isn’t really my highest priority right now. Well, ever… but certainly not right now.
10. Brian Castner says:

    June 24, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    Bring it!
11. Brian Castner says:

    June 24, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    But enjoy to your vacation first. And to be clear, I assumed your lack of reply meant a complete acceptance of all of my points.
12. Ethan says:

    June 25, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    I assumed your lack of reply meant a complete acceptance of all of my points.

    mmm, of course! But you know I was more concerned with “inability” than “acceptance.”